tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1305372753022597815.post3591995079941747157..comments2023-05-06T01:46:51.326-07:00Comments on Bright Cape Gamer: Complicating thingsSkyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10723733406348223879noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1305372753022597815.post-81929026972195377312014-08-17T14:51:13.853-07:002014-08-17T14:51:13.853-07:00I don't see a useful way to integrate random r...I don't see a useful way to integrate random rewards for levelling. Moreover I have a philosophical issue with two characters of the same level who made the same choices have different power levels. Just not going there.<br /><br />However, trying to find ways to have rewards you can't access early on the game is certainly possible. Question: Would you like the idea of Ritual trees working towards a very powerful Ritual at the end? Or is it more appealing to just have a specific level where everybody gets something big?Skyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10723733406348223879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1305372753022597815.post-16592821051310330822014-08-11T17:03:32.738-07:002014-08-11T17:03:32.738-07:00I'd like more evidence that I'm in the min...I'd like more evidence that I'm in the minority. More than anecdotal?<br /><br />Look at nearly every game. There's a leveling system. As you progress, you get better weapons, better units, better buildings. Would Doom be as much fun if you started with a pistol and it slowly did more damage and became more accurate but never turned into a shotgun or BFG? Would Civ be as much fun if you never discover flight or naval powers? (I guess you'd gradually have units that jumped farther with every tech discovery?)<br /><br />I believe the psychological basis for the leveling system being so powerful is the reward. The most effective motivator for behaviour is not consistent gradual rewards. (they're actually intermittent but satisfying rewards but I'm not sure randomly choosing whether you get something when you level would work...though randomly choosing minor powers you'd get probably would).<br /><br />I'm just throwing out ideas here, by the way, because I enjoy thinking about this kind of stuff.<br /><br />The thing that really sticks with me is my sentence from earlier: <br /><br />"My choices from level 5 to 6 are the same when I go from level 15 to 16"<br /><br />How do you maintain long-term interest in a system where your options never change? <br /><br />Assuming I prioritize the powers/abilities I want, I'll always take the one I want the most earliest. So after that decision, ever power/ability is by definition worse than the one I took before. Every level I get an ability I like less than the one from the previous level. That seems really bad.<br /><br />Granted, there is a minor bump from 1st level rituals to 2nd level rituals. And possibly a bump to the next level of powers. And possibly you can build some synergy and be all excited about picking up the 5th and final piece to your big combo. <br /><br />But in general, I level up, sigh, and go back to the list of leftover abilities I didn't take in the previous 5 levels and select one. It doesn't feel like a reward.<br /><br />It feels a bit like a 20th level mage with only 3 levels of spells to choose from. If you're determined to stick with 3 levels of spells, then the lists need to be longer. I'm not sure how viable that is.Vienneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09647759933462318708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1305372753022597815.post-91555714751197768792014-08-07T17:47:21.298-07:002014-08-07T17:47:21.298-07:00Yes, your criticism is completely true. There are...Yes, your criticism is completely true. There are no levels where you suddenly do 50% more damage. So answer me this: Would you rather have a game where most levels you get absolutely nothing but every so often you get an enormous leap forward, or a game where every level you get a noticeable improvement? You can't have both, mind, unless what you want is to spiral the power level completely out of control, and I don't.<br /><br />The reason I built the game this way is that people all over (myself included, to be sure) thought that empty levels where you make no choices and get no significant benefits were no fun at all. Do you actually prefer that style? Nothing wrong with it if you do, but you should know that you are by far the minority in liking it that way. Most people roundly condemned the boring / incredible level dichotomy.<br /><br />Also (and I am totally sounding like a broken record here) the next update does bridge that gap a little. Both Intelligence and Presence have breakpoints at 7,11,15 where you suddenly become quite a lot more powerful. It isn't going to make you 50% more powerful by any means, but it will definitely be a noticeable increase.Skyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10723733406348223879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1305372753022597815.post-39535413307829589672014-08-07T17:03:16.745-07:002014-08-07T17:03:16.745-07:00*Ahem*, fighters eventually got 3/2 and then 2/1 a...*Ahem*, fighters eventually got 3/2 and then 2/1 attacks per round. If you happened to miss that particular paragraph, then I can see why you have such a bad opinion of melee characters. <br /><br />It was *great* to get to that critical level for the extra attack. It's that great leap forward that I miss in HbT leveling. My choices from level 5 to 6 are the same when I go from level 15 to 16. I like shiny new things every few levels.<br /><br />(I do realize that every other level I could improve the stat that opens up a new *pair* of powers, but that's not quite opening up a new level of spells or an additional attack or special ability)Vienneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09647759933462318708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1305372753022597815.post-78750346015458087002014-08-06T19:59:14.441-07:002014-08-06T19:59:14.441-07:00There have been lots of people making suggestions....There have been lots of people making suggestions. You are definitely the outlier in terms of suggestion output, which I certainly appreciate. I don't adopt all the ideas but I do consider them.<br /><br />In terms of complexity I think you will find the next update very satisfying. You will virtually never be in a situation where you simply autoattack and pretty much every round you will be making interesting decisions on which power to use. The decisions will be much deeper and more satisfying than the current build. If you want I can give you access to the files and you can see what I am building.<br /><br />Surprise is a free round of actions, it does not disable dodge. Combat chapter, turn order section. <br /><br />As far as flanking goes there are a ton of powers and a perk or two that make it effective but there isn't a base mechanic. Seriously, I am not writing a system where you have to figure out when you get that extra +2 to hit because of flanking. I have seen that enough to know that I want a singular plus to hit number that doesn't change. If you want to flank, get a power or a perk that lets you be a good flanker and set to. Knock your opponent prone so your friend gets advantage, use Pincer Attack or Wolfpack Tactics, or something similar. If you want more things that emphasize the power of melee characters ganging up then I can certainly build those but they won't be passive bonuses to hit that need to be kept track of.<br /><br />Snakes do in fact have poison now, there are mechanics and everything. We haven't encountered them yet but the stuff is there. I don't yet have a big table of poisons for assassins to use or anything though I suppose someday I will build them. <br /><br />I actually don't think DnD was deep or complex in the play. Twinking out a character from 15 different splatbooks was super complicated but nearly every thug character defaulted to 'I attack' on nearly every round. There was absolutely nothing interesting to think about. Casters did get options though, much like HBT characters get options.<br /><br />I am deliberately avoiding the complexity of building characters that DnD had because most people I know found it super intimidating and frustrating. I loved it, but I loved it for the sake of building overpowered characters and breaking the system. It was terrible for actual roleplaying imho.<br />Skyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10723733406348223879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1305372753022597815.post-5622070421569383782014-08-06T19:42:57.988-07:002014-08-06T19:42:57.988-07:00"A variety"? I thought I was a lone wol..."A variety"? I thought I was a lone wolf, shouting in the darkness!<br /><br />Naked Man is actually asking for combat to be more interesting, which may or may not mean shorter. He questions whether figuring out the best action is (always) complicated/interesting - AOE is an easy decision, basic attack because of fatigue is an easy decision, etc. Arguably, characters have a default "optimal" attack and only when the situation gets strange do they dig deeper into their list of powers/skills/rituals/racial abilities. <br /><br />I like the hex solution. You're a math guy, I know that deep down the diagonals were bugging you too.<br /><br />You've opened my eyes a bit on facing with regards to consecutive move/actions not being realistic. I would argue that you can only get back attack bonuses if the target is otherwise engaged facing forward. Not sure it takes more time to resolve - +4 to hit from behind, +2 from the flank. Wait, what are the surprise rules? Does dodge ever get disabled?<br /><br />Speaking of melee, melee attacks are better with flankers. They don't need to be worse without them. There is a downside to flanking - monsters can use it too, it makes AOE trickier, and it puts people within reach of the bad guys. It's the loss of realism and options that gets me.<br /><br />Imprecise AOE is tricky. Naked Man's biggest concern is the exact placement of an AOE so that the monster is affected, but you can attack it from the edge without penalty. If the monster is in a lightning storm, then people attacking it with melee weapons should be risking half damage or something.<br /><br />Note that this could be another use of intelligence. Make an intelligence check to see if you placed the AOE exactly where you wanted, or if it's off by a hex. <br /><br />I haven't played with attacks of opportunity, I've only seen it mocked in online comics. I like the realism - you can't just run/walk by the monster without engaging it. If there's space, walk around it, but a narrow corridor? Doesn't seem realistic.<br /><br />There's always the option of run up and attack the monster, and then allow 1 hex of movement while actively in combat...and the monster can follow. So you can't just run up and run away at whim (which seems silly), but you can still get by with a bit of effort. Or say that the defender is defending while running past and gets those bonuses against the opportunity attack. <br /><br />Or...have flanking rules and only allow opportunity attacks if you're running by in the first 3 hexes!<br /><br />Naked Man enjoys mentioning poison because it's such a common trope but there are no rules for it (though I think there was some poison recently). There doesn't have to be lots of poisons, but having it available adds good flavour. <br /><br />Note that D&D was very deep and complex...and yet lots of people play it. Complexity isn't as complex if it intuitively makes sense. I expect snakes to be poisonous and attacks from the back to do more damage, when they don't, comprehension complexity just increased.<br /><br />Also note that if you ever expect this to be a commercial success, you'll need to accept feature creep - that's how you sell more books! I want to see the HbT Complete Book of Trolls!<br />Vienneauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09647759933462318708noreply@blogger.com